Welcome, Guest.
Register Donate Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Welcome to the Offroad Passport Community Forum!

This is a community for planning and discussing offroad adventures. All makes and models of offroad vehicles are welcome! Multi-day expedition-style trips are our main focus, but there are plenty of day runs, clinics, and tech-days as well.

The forum is free for Basic Membership! Optional Premium Membership includes such perks as exclusive professionally organized trips and events. Please note that you may view the forum as a guest, but will need to register in order to post or to access certain areas of the site.

Note: If you are already a registered member, please login to remove this message.

Reply
View Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-27-2017
JeepUniq's Avatar
JeepUniq JeepUniq is offline
(Dan) (KJ7DAN)
Forum Vendor
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Vehicle: Jeep JK Rubi Ultd 2013
Posts: 299
Reputation: JeepUniq is an unknown quantity at this point
Jeep Aftermarket Stereo + Jeep JK Premium system
I've decided to replace my Uconnect 730N head unit with a Sony XAV-AX100. I've ran into a problem that I thought might be worth sharing:

Problem:

This is a Apple Carplay (and Android Car unit). I've connected it using a PAC CAN bus RP4-CH11 recommended by Crutchfield to keep my wheel buttons. Everything worked and sounded great (albeit not by much compared with the 730N), except for Siri's prompts. No matter what I did, I couldn't hear Siri: not on Maps, not when reading Texts, etc.

This solution works when using:
- a CAN adaptor, such as the POS "PAC RadioPRO4 Interface for Chrysler Vehicles with CAN bus RP4-CH11"
- with Jeep JK's with Alpine Premium system, perhaps for other systems too.

Root Cause

Sony outputs all Siri's prompts to the REAR speakers. The PAC RPA-CH11, though only drives two of the four amp channels available in the Alpine amp.

Solution

Reverse the Front and Rear speaker connections (since the fader doesn't work with the PAC RPA - remeber, it only drives 2 channels).

Rotten Tomatoes Award

- PAC. What kind of POS adaptor is this?!? In Premium Amplified Systems only two input channels can be used from the aftermarket radio, therefore there will be no fading capability of the aftermarket stereo.
- Crutchfiled (their install sheet doesn't mention this problem, but they mark and sell the PAC+SONY+JEEP as compatible set-up).

Other Thoughts

The double DIN Metra adaptor sucks. I've ordered the Scoche and American Industries ones as well. Haven't received it yet, but can't be worst than Metra's.

Comparison of Uconnect 730N and Sony XAV-AX100

730N Pluses:

- GPS with off-road maps
- GPS w/ dead reckoning
- Ability to save Map points and Trails
- Sirus Tuner and Traffic built in (needs subscription)
- 30MB Harddrive for Music
- Great Sound if one replaces the OEM speakers
- Handsfree Phone interface
- Blutooth Audio Support
- USB and Aux Audio support
- Rugged!

730N Minuses:

- No way to import/export trails or map point (biggest issue for me).
- Usability weaknesses.
- New maps are expensive (although I _almost_ never found them obsolete)
- Voice control sucks (especially with my NJ accent ...)
- Old school integration with smart phones (only via Blutooth or USB for calls and contacts book)
- Screen sometimes hard to read in the AZ sun.

Sony XAV-A100 Pluses:

- Supports Apple Carplay (and Android's version)
- GPS provided by Apple Maps or Google Maps (only on Android)
- Siri works great
- Spotify and Audible apps available and work great!
- Nice fit with the Jeep dashboard (black mate trim)
- Rotary button for volume control (most mechless heads don't have that)
- Nice, bright, responsive screen (even tough not multi touch nor capacitive). Can zoom by double tapping on the map.
- Great UI (very Apple'sque)
- Great sound and sound controls.
- Great RDS support
- Relatively cheap
- Built in support for generic backup cameras

Sony XAV-A100 Minuses:

- No built in GPS (but available as an extra module)
- GPS provided by Apple Maps or Google Maps (only on Android). Can't speak for Android, but Carplay ONLY support Apple Maps.
- No Sirus
- No Hard Drive, but supports USB sticks.
- No HD Radio
- No fader ability - see above Root Problem
- No wireless Carplay. However, since the phone would still need to charge (Spotify and Maps eat batteries fast), not really a issue since I keep by iphone connected anyways,
__________________
Dan

Need a CB, HAM, Mic, Accessory Mount for your Jeep?



Visit our Online Store and follow us on Instagram, Facebook and/or Twitter
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-28-2017
theksmith's Avatar
theksmith theksmith is online now
(Kristoffer) (K1KRS)
Co-Founder
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Vehicle: 2016 JK Unlimited Rubicon
Posts: 6,040
Reputation: theksmith will become famous soon enoughReputation: theksmith will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Aftermarket Stereo + Jeep JK Premium system
nice writeup and congrats on the upgrade!

i played with a demo of the XAV-AX100 at SEMA last year and it seemed like a great unit. it was on my short list before i finally decided on the Pioneer.

WTF would Sony only output Siri to the rear speakers? that, and the fact that the PAC interface doesn't fully integrate with the factory amp is lame. i'm glad you found a cheap fix though! FYI, the iDatalink interface also only sends 2 channels to the factory amp (which i believe is all the 2015+ Alpine premium factory system has as inputs)... but it does communicate the fade setting via CAN-BUS to the amp just as the OEM radio did. i don't think the iDatalink works with Sony radios though.

the whole factory amp's 2 input with 5 output thing is sub-optimal even with the iDatalink because i can't adjust the subwoofer volume independently nor adjust the time-alignment for all 5 channels. however, i'm pretty happy with the sound of the 2015+ Alpine premium system speakers, so i'll be leaving all those components till i'm ready to spend the money on some real bass.

i also had issues with dash kits. what exactly didn't you like with the Metra? i didn't try that brand or Scosche because i wasn't as fond of the look (the sculpted/angled part)...

i first tried the American Industries one and gave up on that. it was very soft plastic and the screws just sank in making the sides flare out away from the radio face too much.

then i bought an XScorpion one. this one at least had stiffer plastic but it still wanted to spread away from the radio face leaving an uneven gap when installed. i ended up drilling 2 new mounting holes in the brackets (to the radio). then i still had to use some shims behind where the brackets screw to the dash so they would angle back in and create a mostly even reveal.

other people have had issues with these various dash kits sticking out too far. here's the common fix for that: http://www.wranglerforum.com/f202/mo...k-1194865.html

mine isn't perfectly flush, but only sticks out about a 1/16". i might hack on it more one day.

good luck and post some photos once you get the dash kit ironed out!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-28-2017
JeepUniq's Avatar
JeepUniq JeepUniq is offline
(Dan) (KJ7DAN)
Forum Vendor
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Vehicle: Jeep JK Rubi Ultd 2013
Posts: 299
Reputation: JeepUniq is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Aftermarket Stereo + Jeep JK Premium system
So even the Maestro RR-CHR01-DS isn't supporting all channels?

I think I might just use the Alpine's amp for the REAR + Sub (fed as is now by the PAC adaptor), and hook the FRONTs directly into the Sony. This way I will get back the fader + will not push a single amp to drive 9 speakers (includes the amp).

Since I already replaced my speakers, they all have crossovers, so all should work fine ... I hope. What do you think?

I also didn't like the bowed front of Metra's trim - are you saying that the Scorpion is flat? I looked at it on Amazon, but seemed a bit bowed as well.
__________________
Dan

Need a CB, HAM, Mic, Accessory Mount for your Jeep?



Visit our Online Store and follow us on Instagram, Facebook and/or Twitter
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-28-2017
theksmith's Avatar
theksmith theksmith is online now
(Kristoffer) (K1KRS)
Co-Founder
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Vehicle: 2016 JK Unlimited Rubicon
Posts: 6,040
Reputation: theksmith will become famous soon enoughReputation: theksmith will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Aftermarket Stereo + Jeep JK Premium system
Originally Posted by JeepUniq View Post
So even the Maestro RR-CHR01-DS isn't supporting all channels?

I think I might just use the Alpine's amp for the REAR + Sub (fed as is now by the PAC adaptor), and hook the FRONTs directly into the Sony. This way I will get back the fader + will not push a single amp to drive 9 speakers (includes the amp).

Since I already replaced my speakers, they all have crossovers, so all should work fine ... I hope. What do you think?

I also didn't like the bowed front of Metra's trim - are you saying that the Scorpion is flat? I looked at it on Amazon, but seemed a bit bowed as well.

i'm pretty sure my factory amp only has 2 inputs period (with 5 outputs). the factory radio talked to it over CAN-BUS to control fade, just like the iDatalink/Pioneer combo does. however, Jeep/Alpine changed the "premium" system in 2015, so does your year actually have 4 inputs on the factory amp? i also saw somewhere that in the 2015+ system, the subwoofer volume is increased if you remove the hard-top (it senses if the rear wiper is attached).

the plan to use the front speaker-level outputs from your radio and the rear RCA outputs through the PAC and factory amp should work *if* Sony enables both types of outputs all the time. the radio's internal amp versus the factory amp might have slightly different characteristics that could color the sound in their own unique way and make for a weird mix. you'd just have to try it i guess!


from what i've seen, all of the Wrangler double DIN dash kits have a slight curve from top to bottom - but the the Metra/Scosche also have an angled cut away on the outside edges. unsure if the AI/XScorpion curve is less pronounced.

Metra/Scosche (have not seen these in person):



AI/XScorpion (the ones i tried):

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-28-2017
JeepUniq's Avatar
JeepUniq JeepUniq is offline
(Dan) (KJ7DAN)
Forum Vendor
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Vehicle: Jeep JK Rubi Ultd 2013
Posts: 299
Reputation: JeepUniq is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Aftermarket Stereo + Jeep JK Premium system
Originally Posted by theksmith View Post
i'm pretty sure my factory amp only has 2 inputs period (with 5 outputs). the factory radio talked to it over CAN-BUS to control fade, just like the iDatalink/Pioneer combo does. however, Jeep/Alpine changed the "premium" system in 2015, so does your year actually have 4 inputs on the factory amp? i also saw somewhere that in the 2015+ system, the subwoofer volume is increased if you remove the hard-top (it senses if the rear wiper is attached).
Mine is a 2013. I don't know if it's a true 4.1 - I assumed it was, but you might be right. Thanks for resetting my line of thought - I kept thinking home audio (where the channels are always discrete). Here's what I was able to find re: the amp connections @wranglerforum: http://www.wranglerforum.com/f40/201...ml#post3334949

>>>
In the following pin-out list, the large white plug is referred to as C1 and the smaller black plug is C2.

Front Left Woofer + Grey/Violet Pin C2-8
Front Left Woofer - Grey/Yellow Pin C2-16
Front Left Tweeter + Grey/Orange Pin C1-20
Front Left Tweeter - Grey/Yellow Pin C1-9

Front Right Woofer + Dark Green/Violet Pin C2-7
Front Right Woofer - Dark Green/Yellow Pin C2-15
Front Right Tweeter + Grey/Dark Green Pin C1-19
Front Right Tweeter - Grey/Light Green Pin C1-8

Soundbar Left + Grey/Light Green Pin C2-13
Soundbar Left - Grey/Dark Green Pin C2-5
Soundbar Right + Dark Green/Light Green Pin C2-4
Soundbar Right - Dark Green/Grey Pin C2-12

Subwoofer 1 + Grey/Brown Pin C2-14
Subwoofer 1 - Dark Green/Brown Pin C2-6
Subwoofer 2 + Grey/White Pin C2-3
Subwoofer 2 - Dark Green/White Pin C2-11
<<<

Originally Posted by theksmith View Post
the plan to use the front speaker-level outputs from your radio and the rear RCA outputs through the PAC and factory amp should work *if* Sony enables both types of outputs all the time.
I will not use both output types. Only the same wires that the PAC is using. Instead of connecting the FRONTS to the PAC adaptor, I'll connect the REARS (which as a matter of fact I did, due to the Siri issue). The FRONTS right now are going nowhere (even tough they're connected to the PAC, since the adaptor will only send two channels in. So, instead I'll get them to drive the speakers. The amp in the Sony is 20x4 so it should be OK. Not sure what the Alpine amp is rated at, but I assume I should be able to balance the sound via the fader.

Originally Posted by theksmith View Post
the radio's internal amp versus the factory amp might have slightly different characteristics that could color the sound in their own unique way and make for a weird mix. you'd just have to try it i guess!
You're right, we'll see, but since the Alpine is an amp, not a processor (all that will be done by Sony), I don't expect any differences.

Originally Posted by theksmith View Post
from what i've seen, all of the Wrangler double DIN dash kits have a slight curve from top to bottom - but the the Metra/Scosche also have an angled cut away on the outside edges. unsure if the AI/XScorpion curve is less pronounced.
I'll post pictures once I get it mounted.
__________________
Dan

Need a CB, HAM, Mic, Accessory Mount for your Jeep?



Visit our Online Store and follow us on Instagram, Facebook and/or Twitter
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-09-2017
theksmith's Avatar
theksmith theksmith is online now
(Kristoffer) (K1KRS)
Co-Founder
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Vehicle: 2016 JK Unlimited Rubicon
Posts: 6,040
Reputation: theksmith will become famous soon enoughReputation: theksmith will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Aftermarket Stereo + Jeep JK Premium system
i forgot to ask you about this project on our last trip... what's the latest?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-09-2017
JeepUniq's Avatar
JeepUniq JeepUniq is offline
(Dan) (KJ7DAN)
Forum Vendor
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Vehicle: Jeep JK Rubi Ultd 2013
Posts: 299
Reputation: JeepUniq is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Aftermarket Stereo + Jeep JK Premium system
Originally Posted by theksmith View Post
i forgot to ask you about this project on our last trip... what's the latest?
I’ve installed it as I mentioned. Bi-amped. Seems Okay.
__________________
Dan

Need a CB, HAM, Mic, Accessory Mount for your Jeep?



Visit our Online Store and follow us on Instagram, Facebook and/or Twitter
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-10-2017
theksmith's Avatar
theksmith theksmith is online now
(Kristoffer) (K1KRS)
Co-Founder
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Vehicle: 2016 JK Unlimited Rubicon
Posts: 6,040
Reputation: theksmith will become famous soon enoughReputation: theksmith will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Aftermarket Stereo + Jeep JK Premium system
did you get the dash kit to look ok, which brand did you end up using?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-10-2017
JeepUniq's Avatar
JeepUniq JeepUniq is offline
(Dan) (KJ7DAN)
Forum Vendor
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Vehicle: Jeep JK Rubi Ultd 2013
Posts: 299
Reputation: JeepUniq is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Aftermarket Stereo + Jeep JK Premium system
I used the American something one. It seemed the flattest of them all. They're all quite soft - can't say one is better then the other. Here's a picture, showing some of the new JeepUniq mounts as well.
Attached Images:
File Type: jpg DSCF5734.jpg (48.6 KB, 10 views)
__________________
Dan

Need a CB, HAM, Mic, Accessory Mount for your Jeep?



Visit our Online Store and follow us on Instagram, Facebook and/or Twitter
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-10-2017
JeepUniq's Avatar
JeepUniq JeepUniq is offline
(Dan) (KJ7DAN)
Forum Vendor
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Vehicle: Jeep JK Rubi Ultd 2013
Posts: 299
Reputation: JeepUniq is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Aftermarket Stereo + Jeep JK Premium system
Another picture
Attached Images:
File Type: jpg DSCF5736 2.jpg (58.2 KB, 9 views)
__________________
Dan

Need a CB, HAM, Mic, Accessory Mount for your Jeep?



Visit our Online Store and follow us on Instagram, Facebook and/or Twitter
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
   
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
   
Terms of Service

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Burping 89 XJ cooling system Bob Keyes Jeep Specific 1 06-08-2015 04:31 PM
FREE! Pioneer Car Stereo and 4 Speakers dzJeepChic Classifieds: Parts & Equipment For Sale 2 01-19-2012 06:09 PM
Anyone use a jetboil cooking system? jburns Trail Cooking & Kitchen 11 07-19-2011 04:42 AM
[Python] Security System Help Needed! dzJeepChic Jeep Specific 5 04-19-2010 10:18 PM
XJ radiator and cooling system upgrade K7VZ Jeep Specific 6 01-24-2010 08:24 PM