Town Site Question

[BushDawg 1]

What are the legalities on old ghost town sites ? If the ghost town is not registered as a Historical site, can it be rebuilt ? Do you need to own the property, get permits, ect. ?

 

The site I'm looking at is on BLM land, not frequented by anyone and pretty much forgotten. I would not be advertising the fact that I am rebuilding and only let a few like minded folks join in. It would be about authenticity and preservation. It would use the natural surrounding and would be built to be unobtrusive to the land.

I have many ideas that I would put in place for water reclamation, waste disposal and in general clean living areas. Basically, taking advanced ideas on off the grid living and incorporating them into authentic mining town decore.

 

Once completed or even during the build phase, it could be used to help monitor the BLM lands. Currently BLM does this by volunteers parking a fifth wheel on various sites and living there to keep an eye on things. I am also going to ask a BLM ranger I know about this as well but thought I would post here in the event we have someone in the know on the board.

 

Thanks

[peshaw48 6]

I am curious

[peshaw48 6]

In the florence jct area I know 2 ghost towns, Silver King and Reymert. Both of them had people living in them in the late 60s and they were really neat towns. The people that own the mineral rights and started mining, tore the towns down. So I think that if you own the mineral rights, you have something to do with the town. I would check on the rights and see if you could buy them 1st.

[BushDawg 1]

Thanks Phil. I'm slowly getting a few answers as I bounce between State and BLM offices with my questions. I'm certain that the ladies in those offices think I'm a complete nut job. But I've found that in many cases the Railroad owns the land. They had bought a swath of land to lay the tracks on and normally bought a large amount surrounding the tracks. Once the tracks are finished, the railroad may start selling off the land to the public. I've also found out that State won't sale random acres. They decide on what they want to sale and then list it on the website. All of it is in prime locations for development and is priced accordingly. Now, BLM will sale small parcels to folks. I still need to talk to the main guy at BLM about this since he was on vacation.

I also got data on the County court houses and Dept. of Real Estate. These I will use to search for fore closed lands and abandoned lands.

I still need to find out about the abandoned ghost towns but I thought I would give the folks at the State and BLM offices a break from me today. I have to give props to those gals though, they stayed with me as I bumbled through all my questions and repeatedly had to call them back for questions I forgot to ask the first time. They were all very patient and nice as I asked all my questions. Kind of a rare event anymore to find anyone who is friendly in customer service.

Well, I will update with more info as I get it. In the mean time, I think I will go explore the area a bit more this coming weekend. I do see a few home sites in the area.

[BushDawg 1]

Well I found out that most Ghost Towns are owned by the State/BLM, Mining Co.'s or Railroads. A few are on private property. It is possible to purchase the land but the cost is well inflated. If the land was owned by an individual and the Town went bust, then the State takes it for unpaid taxes. There are other variables to this but the bottom line is that you can buy some of it but plan on it taking awhile to get sorted out.

At least this is what I have been able to find out so far. All of my querries have been over the phone so I also suspect I may have gotten farther had I went in person to talk to them but my schedule just isn't allowing for that right now.

The area I was looking at does have folks living there ( very, very few ), so it would be possible to purchase sections of land but I am still not positive of the ability to purchase the entire Town.

So, for now, the search continues and I still have an excuse to roam aimlessly through the desert.

[GRUNT 87]

I would be interested in something like this if you are working on this in early summer. Righ tnow I am working on the jeep.

[AZBillyBoy 2]

All land belongs to someone. Or some entity. Without permits, environmental surveys, etc, you would probably end up in more trouble than it's worth.

 

Now you could BUY an old townsite but in many cases the current owners have warped visions of what their land is worth.

 

 

For example, the current owner of the Swastika Mine is trying to sell her 40 patented acres at the same price she paid for the original 80. I was told the going rate for land like that is around $2000 an acre, although in this economy you could probably get more for less, especially if you have cash.

 

What I said about all land belonging to somone:

 

Tip Top - private property, patented mining claim

Gillette - same thing

Swastika, Peck, DeSoto, Oro Belle: all the same thing. Just because they are deserted pieces of land doesn't mean someone doesn't own them. The DeSoto and Peck Mines are HUGE holdings of land which indeed have owners. Why anyone would want to own something like that, pay taxes on it every year, yet DO nothing with it defies description.

 

So whatever locale you are looking at most likely is the same. In a National Forest, it's easy to tell by looking at the map to see if the land is private or public.

 

My favorite story is about the Orizaba Mine, located in Moores Gulch out by Table Mesa. Used to be an easy drive back in the 1980's. Ran into a huge dozer out there in the early '90's working on the road. Then as the years went by, the road deteriorated until it was a rough trip to get there. Three years ago I went there with some people in the Bronco Club - I was the lead driver - and the further in on Moores Gulch Road we went, the better the road got.

 

That, of course, made no sense until the got to Orizaba and found a full sized Santa Fe style house, looking like something from Arrowhead, sitting out there in the middle of nowhere.

 

Since there was a gate (not locked!), we opted to turn around and go back.

 

Last year I was working on a trail in the PNF and all of a sudden this guy shows up out of nowhere - he had tracked me down by the sound of my chain saw. Turns out he bought Orizaba from the State; then he also had to buy a right of way on Moore Gulch road as well, and built his totally off-the-grid house (complete with internet, phone, AC, indoor plumbing !!! the whole package!).

 

I didn't pry as to what it cost, but he must have been well-off to pull this off. BTW his name is Keith so if you ever visit, say Hi. He seems pretty decent....

 

Anyway, I would be very leery of doing what you are proposing.

 

What really peeves me is how people are steadily destroying what ghost towns are left. Table Mesa is a battle field; Gillette and Tip Top have been pretty much destroyed. Even Oro Belle has been vandalized by all the flatlanders who seem to have zero respect for history.

 

End of rant

[BushDawg 1]

I would be interested in something like this if you are working on this in early summer. Righ tnow I am working on the jeep.

 

Thanks Grunt !

I'm sure it will be awhile, if at all, before this materializes. Any sights I have looked at have a hefty price tag. But I'll keep poking around and see if I happen to stumble across that perfect opportunity.

 

AZBillyBoy

Yep, it's all owned by someone. I'm not leery about what I'm proposing because it's not illegal. I think you may have misunderstood what my idea was. It's to restore the Ghost Town, not destroy it. It's to purchase it. not squat on it.

Most of these Historic sites are left to crumble or be vandalized. I wanted to find one that I could restore but put in ( hidden ) modern off the grid systems so I would not destroy the look of the town with modern wiring or such and it would be self sufficient. I wanted to work with the BLM so I could use the current right of way for unlimited access. If it panned out, see what, if any, tax breaks could be gotten by opening it up to the public and registering it as a Historic Site.

 

This is the plan. I am still, slowly, getting answers to my questions from State and BLM. Most importantly, for now, is that I am making contacts that may be of use if this crazy idea does begin to materialize.

If it never happens, then at least I tried and had an excuse for some of my more random exploration as well as met a few good people.

[AZBillyBoy 2]

well heck if you own it, you can do whatever you want with it! Sorry if you thought I thought you were either going to squat on it or destroy it. What was the name of that town that Knott's Berry Farm restored in CA? Calico, I think? It was around in the 70's. Don't know if it still is or not. It was supposed to be restored. Or more actually, in the case of today, rebuilt to some degree.

[BushDawg 1]

well heck if you own it, you can do whatever you want with it! Sorry if you thought I thought you were either going to squat on it or destroy it. What was the name of that town that Knott's Berry Farm restored in CA? Calico, I think? It was around in the 70's. Don't know if it still is or not. It was supposed to be restored. Or more actually, in the case of today, rebuilt to some degree.

 

No worries here. I know that I sometimes don't get my meaning across to well. Guess I'm "literally challenged".

Knott's Berry Farm is the one in Ca. but I'm not sure how it faired.

I just hate to see out history destroyed. I've been all over the world and I admire the Countries that incorporate their history with modernization. Here is the U.S. , it seems we just throw it away and build new.

A local example is Buckeye. They have an old corner Hotel/Market building that I think has a ton of character. Well instead of rennovating it and using the building, they go down the street and build a new modern looking brick and glass building that looks out of place in Buckeye. Just a waste to let the old build sit and crumble and then you also now have a place that is an eye sore, potential hazard and can harbor the trouble makers, addicts or such.

I just thought it would be nice to save an old town from the ravages of time and preserve a small piece of Arizona heritage. Places like Tombstone are fun to visit but they have lost much of that historic precense.

If I had Tombstone, I would have left on the main road open sas a pass through town and closed the rest to motorized vehicles. I would have set up a large parking arena outside of town and then let a local vendor set a business up to bring the visitors into town in an old horse drawn carriage. From there, everyone can walk the streets from site to site or ride a horse that they could rent from the local Livery Stable ( opportunity for another local business ).

Basically just keep the town froze in the 1880's. After all, I think that is what most people want and expect to see when they go. It would make it a better Historic site by being more accurate to the time. It would open up a few more business opportunities for the locals and enhance the visitors experience.

I know, I'm rambling on about would have, could have and should have but I just don't think everthing is better being modernized. I dream big sometimes but the dreams don't cost a thing.