Hackberry Creek, November 2013 Picture Thread

[theksmith 3,828]

Great pictures and trip reports!

 

Did you and George remember to unstack those rocks after you got through that section?

 

i'm pretty sure Chris's WJ spit most of em out, and then mine finished moving what was left...

 

but don't be bring your stack/don't-stack VJC religious war over here! these are all public trails and people can do whatever they want to on them when it comes to that. i personally don't like finding a hard trail all stacked into a freeway but i also wouldn't appreciate some random person giving me a sermon if i had to stack a couple rocks and then moved on to keep the group going.

[LO PHAT 1]

but don't be bring your stack/don't-stack VJC religious war over here! these are all public trails and people can do whatever they want to on them when it comes to that. i personally don't like finding a hard trail all stacked into a freeway but i also wouldn't appreciate some random person giving me a sermon if i had to stack a couple rocks and then moved on to keep the group going.

 

 

This is why I asked the question, and I must admit that I'm disappointed with your answer.

 

 

You'll get no "religious VJC war" from me, but since I very much enjoy the technical aspect of off-roading I am very opposed to rock stacking. I don't have any problems with people stacking a few rocks to get through an obstacle, but I have HUGE problems with those rocks being left there afterwards. Most of us spend years improving our driving skills and increasing the capabilities of our vehicles. We look forward to driving on the harder trails that we once considered impossible when we had little experience and mostly stock vehicles. Leaving stacked rocks on a trail ruins the experience of that trail for others.

 

 

 

 

... these are all public trails and people can do whatever they want to on them ...

 

 

I quoted this statement of yours again because it makes me very sad. Stop and think about the opinion you are expressing here. This is the same mentality displayed by people who don't care about treading lightly. It's a selfish attitude that is very inconsiderate to others also trying to enjoy public trails. Since I know that you do believe in treading lightly, however, I find it disheartening that you don't feel you should clean up your stacked rocks just like you would clean up your trash.

 

 

 

 

I'll say nothing more about this for now. Carry on...

[gearhead 407]

I think that it is fine to stack rocks, but only if they are unstacked thereafter. I guess there is no law that they have to be unstacked, but it seems like it is a courtesy to the next person who runs the trail.

 

Thanks!

[theksmith 3,828]

I quoted this statement of yours again because it makes me very sad. Stop and think about the opinion you are expressing here. This is the same mentality displayed by people who don't care about treading lightly. It's a selfish attitude that is very inconsiderate to others also trying to enjoy public trails. Since I know that you do believe in treading lightly, however, I find it disheartening that you don't feel you should clean up your stacked rocks just like you would clean up your trash.

 

stop and think yourself before you selectively quote people. the quote you took out of context has a different meaning than the full sentence.

 

there are laws about trash, staying on trails, and more - because those debates have matured to the point that there is a majority who feel a particular way within our society. the rock stacking debate continues though without consensus, and gets insanely hot sometimes - hence my reference to a religious war.

 

i also said that i don't like to encounter a bunch of stacking and that i too enjoy a difficult trail for what it is, but you ignored that sentiment. i personally do feel that a couple leftover rocks after removing most of a stacking effort is nowhere near as egregious of an offence as any litter is.

 

the point i was attempting to make is that when something is open for debate yet people think only their argument is the correct one and that they should shout it at other people, well i find that as inconsiderate and intolerable as misplaced trash or rocks. i'm not accusing you of shouting it blindly, but rather that is what i see happen quite often on forums when the subject is brought up.

[kaspily 2]

Remind me to never mention rock stacking again. It was three freaking rocks and they got pushed out. We got over many hard obstacles that day with no problems. Thanks for insulting our driving skills and capabilities in your later posts. It's not like we had to stack on everything to get us through.

 

Just trying to share a nice trip report and thank the people we went with.

[Jklee 1]

I had to double check what forum I was on........ Bummer. Great trip report wish I could have made it. kaspily I have wheeled with both lophat and ksmith. They are both nice guys and didn't mean any offense about driving skills or rig capabilities. It's just that stupid stacking debate gets misunderstood and out of line every time.

[Number7 86]

This subject has been beat to death. I am firm believer in the freedom for all to run public trails whether they have a stock or modified rig or they have a quad/side-by-side. The last time I ran Log Coral it was stacked like a frickin highway. Even though I didn't like it, it is a PUBLIC trail. I can't set the rules. Most of the trails I run are moderate, and they are always stacked because they're too hard for stockers. But the buggy guys aren't interested in most moderate trails, so why should they care?

 

There are every variety of rigs from stockers to moderate built rigs and buggies to atv's and side-by-side's on public trails all trying to get through. They all have the freedoms to run public trails just as a moped has the same rights on the road as a Shelby Mustang. It's a freedom issue. If you don't want rock stacking, then buy a huge piece of land and build trails on it and set your own rules.

 

I am neutral on rock staking, the next rain will re-stack every thing anyway.

 

Since I had to work so hard on this post this is my $0.03.

 

George

[LO PHAT 1]

Remind me to never mention rock stacking again. It was three freaking rocks and they got pushed out. We got over many hard obstacles that day with no problems. Thanks for insulting our driving skills and capabilities in your later posts. It's not like we had to stack on everything to get us through.

 

I promise you that I was in no way insulting your driving skills or your capabilities. I am not one of those hardcore guys who thinks that everyone else is beneath me. I'm just as happy driving down an easy and scenic 1.0 rated trail as I am crawling through a difficult 4.5 rated desert wash. I am well known in the Virtual Jeep Club for frequently organizing and leading trail runs for people who are new to off-roading. In addition to making sure that everyone has fun and stays safe, my goals always include helping others to expand their comfort zones while educating them about various land use issues. I suspect that these are some of the reasons I was asked to be a trail coordinator for Offroad Passport. For me to better understand this group, however, I will from time to time ask questions about touchy subjects such as rock stacking. When we eventually meet in person you'll see that I'm not a bad guy.

 

Just trying to share a nice trip report and thank the people we went with.

 

In case you missed it the first time, I'll say it again: Great pictures and trip reports!

[LO PHAT 1]

I had to double check what forum I was on........ Bummer. Great trip report wish I could have made it. kaspily I have wheeled with both lophat and ksmith. They are both nice guys and didn't mean any offense about driving skills or rig capabilities. It's just that stupid stacking debate gets misunderstood and out of line every time.

 

You are absolutely correct in all of what you wrote. Also, thank you for the compliment.

[CB726 0]

Those are awesome pics!! Hope to meet some of you WJ guys someday...