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theksmith

JK Wrangler Push-to-Start, Hands-Free Keyless Entry & Remote Start

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1 hour ago, dmentd_dan said:

I love this whole PKE and Push Button Start.  I miss both of these features from my old car.  I am not keen on the walk up to the car PKE idea though.  I walk by my car a bunch of times at home or work and I don't want it locking and unlocking all the time.  I was thinking of doing this more like OEM by having a momentary button on the door handle that interupts the PKE antenna and when pushing the button the circuit is connected and the PKE antenna "sees" the key fob in your picket and unlocks the door.  Locking the door would be like OEM and a button would have to be pushed on the remote or locking the doors once you are exiting the vehicle.  THere are inserts that go into the JK handles that have round holes in them and one of those holes could be modified on the back to hold the button (the hole closest to the door open push button already there would be my choice.  the back could be milled or hollowed out to run the wire that interupts the PKE antenna and then a discreet hole somewhere in the handle would be needed to run wires into the door.  THere are also door handle comlete covers that could be utilized as a way of mounting a button and hiding the wires.  In your opinion do you think an antenna "interupt" button would work as i envision it?

It looks like the RAMPAGE metal replacement handles could be modified easily as they are hollow and have removeable undersides.  the wires could be ran through the extra space in the factory large circle hole.  Only need to mount an unobtrusive mometary switch inside the handle that would be accessable from the topside of the handle through a hole drilled for it.  Thoughts?

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4 hours ago, dmentd_dan said:

I love this whole PKE and Push Button Start.  I miss both of these features from my old car.  I am not keen on the walk up to the car PKE idea though.  I walk by my car a bunch of times at home or work and I don't want it locking and unlocking all the time.  I was thinking of doing this more like OEM by having a momentary button on the door handle that interupts the PKE antenna and when pushing the button the circuit is connected and the PKE antenna "sees" the key fob in your picket and unlocks the door.  Locking the door would be like OEM and a button would have to be pushed on the remote or locking the doors once you are exiting the vehicle.  THere are inserts that go into the JK handles that have round holes in them and one of those holes could be modified on the back to hold the button (the hole closest to the door open push button already there would be my choice.  the back could be milled or hollowed out to run the wire that interupts the PKE antenna and then a discreet hole somewhere in the handle would be needed to run wires into the door.  THere are also door handle comlete covers that could be utilized as a way of mounting a button and hiding the wires.  In your opinion do you think an antenna "interupt" button would work as i envision it?

 

 

some thoughts and a little more info on how the Easyguard works...

 

note that you can temporarily disable the entire PKE feature by pressing the brake pedal while the engine is running and holding down the lock and unlock buttons on the fob for a second. same procedure to re-enable it. this personally is my biggest complaint as when i do want to disable PKE (like when working on the rig in the garage), i have to start it up for just a second. however, pressing the lock button on the fob also disables PKE until you unlock with the fob button. i just wish there was a way to leave it unlocked and disable PKE without having to start it first.

 

so - there are 3 antennas. one "long range" antenna only responds to the buttons on the fob - so that would be unaffected by your plan and could continue to allow you to lock/unlock/remote-start with the fob buttons.

 

the other 2 "close range" antennas are the ones that sense the fob when nearby. you can plug in just one of these close range antennas and things still work fine, just with limited range. however, even with both plugged in (and properly positioned according to the instructions) - the range is typically only maybe 5 feet with all the radio-frequency noise of an urban environment. out in the wilderness the range extends and sometimes i might come within 15 feet even and the doors unlock.

 

so my thought is, what if you only plugged in one of the close range antennas, and put it inside the driver door panel instead of up high on the window. that would probably limit the range so much that you would need to be standing right next to that door for it to unlock - or sitting in the driver seat for it to stay unlocked and start (more on that in a second). certainly seems worth a try before getting more complicated.

 

and here are the slight kinks in your plan that i see. as soon as you disconnect the close range antenna, the Easyguard re-locks the doors. even worse, you couldn't start the car...  see the push-to-start button only works when the close range antenna can see the fob. this is of course what keeps someone from breaking in and driving away. however, depending on a dip switch setting on the Easyguard, you can have it only check for the fob when you first push-to-start and not keep checking once running - so that setting helps with your idea...

 

so your plan could work but i think would require some additional parts beyond a single switch. at the very least i'm thinking  your door handle switch would activate a delayed-off timer to reconnect the antenna, giving yourself a few minutes to get in and start the car. also might want to use a relay in such a way that when the car is in Accessory or ON mode (but not running), the antenna stays connected too so that you could then eventually start the car without getting out to push the door handle switch again (i.e. if you were hanging out in the rig for a while with the radio on waiting for someone).

 

 

 

Edited by theksmith
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41 minutes ago, theksmith said:

 

 

some thoughts and a little more info on how the Easyguard works...

 

note that you can temporarily disable the entire PKE feature by pressing the brake pedal while the engine is running and holding down the lock and unlock buttons on the fob for a second. same procedure to re-enable it. this personally is my biggest complaint as when i do want to disable PKE (like when working on the rig in the garage), i have to start it up for just a second. however, pressing the lock button on the fob also disables PKE until you unlock with the fob button. i just wish there was a way to leave it unlocked and disable PKE without having to start it first.

 

so - there are 3 antennas. one "long range" antenna only responds to the buttons on the fob - so that would be unaffected by your plan and could continue to allow you to lock/unlock/remote-start with the fob buttons.

 

the other 2 "close range" antennas are the ones that sense the fob when nearby. you can plug in just one of these close range antennas and things still work fine, just with limited range. however, even with both plugged in (and properly positioned according to the instructions) - the range is typically only maybe 5 feet with all the radio-frequency noise of an urban environment. out in the wilderness the range extends and sometimes i might come within 15 feet even and the doors unlock.

 

so my thought is, what if you only plugged in one of the close range antennas, and put it inside the driver door panel instead of up high on the window. that would probably limit the range so much that you would need to be standing right next to that door for it to unlock - or sitting in the driver seat for it to stay unlocked and start (more on that in a second). certainly seems worth a try before getting more complicated.

 

and here are the slight kinks in your plan that i see. as soon as you disconnect the close range antenna, the Easyguard re-locks the doors. even worse, you couldn't start the car...  see the push-to-start button only works when the close range antenna can see the fob. this is of course what keeps someone from breaking in and driving away. however, depending on a dip switch setting on the Easyguard, you can have it only check for the fob when you first push-to-start and not keep checking once running - so that setting helps with your idea...

 

so your plan could work but i think would require some additional parts beyond a single switch. at the very least i'm thinking  your door handle switch would activate a delayed-off timer to reconnect the antenna, giving yourself a few minutes to get in and start the car. also might want to use a relay in such a way that when the car is in Accessory or ON mode (but not running), the antenna stays connected too so that you could then eventually start the car without getting out to push the door handle switch again (i.e. if you were hanging out in the rig for a while with the radio on waiting for someone).

 

 

 

Hmmm, thanks for the insights on the Easyguard system.  I'll look into this more as I am very interested in PKE and push to start.  A latching push button (on - off - on) instead of a momentary (on - off) would work and would solve all the issues you brought to my attention but I would have to make it "muscle memory" to push the button again (off) when I leave the vehicle....  Lots of great insight, thanks!  I'll think about this more and maybe look at different products as well.

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Hi Kris,

I am from Australia, Amazing posts too.

I have seen an awesome YouTube site in Auss a guy has done a similar setup using the fortin unit with some other items which I went with in the end. Our Jeeps in Australia come with steering locks so you need to have a spare key (cut down) and a cap to cover the ignition barrel. the barrel wires are disconnected so no dramas there, key is purely to release the steering lock mechanism

  but liked your post and also the advanced keys product. https://advancedkeys.com/products.htm looks like it’s all well packaged with the credit card style emergency access. however, it’s pretty pricey but they look like they have all the bases covered.

 

 

 

cheers

Reubs 

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Reubs

 

Can you drive away without the FOB after using the phone to perform the start?


Thanks,
Matt

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On 9/6/2019 at 1:12 PM, dmentd_dan said:

Hmmm, thanks for the insights on the Easyguard system.  I'll look into this more as I am very interested in PKE and push to start.  A latching push button (on - off - on) instead of a momentary (on - off) would work and would solve all the issues you brought to my attention but I would have to make it "muscle memory" to push the button again (off) when I leave the vehicle....  Lots of great insight, thanks!  I'll think about this more and maybe look at different products as well.

 

I have gotten used to the PKE doing its “thing” as I get near the Jeep.  If you really wanted to do this, you could use a momentary switch on the door handle, diode, and relay to latch, then use a programmable “timer” relay like you can find on amazon, to close the contact after you get out fo the Jeep and power off.   The programmable relay can be set to latch and hold once triggered and timed out after you power off the ignition.  

 

If you are interested in the actual circuit design and parts let me know, I think I built something similar for another purpose a few years ago.

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Does anyone have any idea how I can use a switch to do a takeover from the fortin without the EASYGUARD Key Fob in my hands.  I want to give my kid the mobile app to use the Jeep without giving her a key so I can park it and leave it for her to pick up.

 

Matt

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4 hours ago, matts74 said:

Does anyone have any idea how I can use a switch to do a takeover from the fortin without the EASYGUARD Key Fob in my hands.  I want to give my kid the mobile app to use the Jeep without giving her a key so I can park it and leave it for her to pick up.

 

Matt

^ Per above, can I make a ground while running and tie my existing omega mux to it with a switch, and be done?   Do I need to do this to the Fortin’s mux?

 

Sorry for all the crazy replies and stuff today - couldn’t figure out how to edit older item, and also been a while since I dropped in here.  Started a new job and got crazy busy last several months.

 

Matt

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@matts74 - sorry it's been so long since i messed with this i don't really remember a lot of the specifics!

 

however, i think the Fortin will theoretically run forever after a start (versus the Omega which definitely does not) - i.e. it doesn't need to "hand-off" unless you press the brake pedal.

 

so if your phone based start is using the Fortin, you would just have to put a hidden switch on the Fortin's foot-brake input wire so you could "break" that connection. after switching that input OFF, you'd be able to press the brake without triggering the Fortin to shut down. i think that would bypass the requirement for the Easyguard or factory key completely. i could be forgetting some important detail though!

 

since we disable the physical key-based shifter interlock when installing the Easyguard, you want this switch hidden (and normally left ON) because without that brake input someone could break into the car after you remote-started it with the phone and just drive away.

 

also, if that seems to work, be careful and fully test for a long time to make sure it's not going to just shut down eventually while driving!

 

 

Edited by theksmith

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28 minutes ago, theksmith said:

@matts74 - sorry it's been so long since i messed with this i don't really remember a lot of the specifics!

 

however, i think the Fortin will theoretically run forever after a start (versus the Omega which definitely does not) - i.e. it doesn't need to "hand-off" unless you press the brake pedal.

 

so if your phone based start is using the Fortin, you would just have to put a hidden switch on the Fortin's foot-brake input wire so you could "break" that connection. after switching that input OFF, you'd be able to press the brake without triggering the Fortin to shut down. i think that would bypass the requirement for the Easyguard or factory key completely. i could be forgetting some important detail though!

 

since we disable the physical key-based shifter interlock when installing the Easyguard, you want this switch hidden (and normally left ON) because without that brake input someone could break into the car after you remote-started it with the phone and just drive away.

 

also, if that seems to work, be careful and fully test for a long time to make sure it's not going to just shut down eventually while driving!

 

 

 

 

Thanks.   Good to see your reply.  Hope all is well.

 

I could most certainly ground the brake input of the Fortin with a switch.  I’m not sure Fortin device has the analog lines active when you turn up the serial port, so it would need some testing.   

 

I am thinking that it may be easier to use a switch to give the omega control and fake a handoff by putting 12v on the 10s-delay relay that controls the mux circuit.   Risk with that is if the switch is left on you’ll have two 12v inputs at that relay contact.  So, I’ll need to add a diode on both lines.

 

I will experiment with both and let you know which works.

 

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