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theksmith

overheat, did i blow my 4.7L engine?

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well i guess i did screw it, and it was just taking it's time to yell about it....

 

cooling system has been wonky, after checking and changing a few things, finally noticed repeatable results of coolant being puked after reaching operating temperature, and never coming back into the system from the overflow jug. then noticed that everytime i removed the radiator cap after it cooled down, there was a rush of air... thought at first it was a vacuum as it should be sucking IN, and replaced the cap... then finally realized it was air pushing out. so the system is holding pressure, but where's this air coming from? well, turns out not air...

 

P1120340.JPG

 

anyone know a good reman place?

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most likely warped heads, could be cracked, could just be gasket i guess....

 

 

http://www.blockchek.com/instructions.htm

 

hand.gif

 

 

new engine is $4,500, new heads are $1k, used engine with 100k miles is like $2,500, but that seems pointless with that many miles - guess i'm just gonna replace heads, not sure.

 

EDIT - found a lower priced engine, kinda considering doing it all since i want to keep the jeep a long time: - $3,300 - anyone ever used this company? http://www.promarengine.com/productdetails.asp?ProdId=440&SP=--

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Believe me I feel your pain.

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That sux K, sorry to hear that.

My neighbor down the street is selling his '03 4.7 h.o. Grand for $850 with 140k on a "strong motor" but bad transfer case & ripped up leather interior. might be something worthy to work with for the price?

His name is Johnny, 503-432-3286.

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Have you gotten an estimate from Jimmy Hopper @ Hoppers in Tempe yet? A local shop with knowledgeable folks and quality workmanship...;)

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here's what i've decided to do and how i arrived at that conclusion (i offer this long winded post for any that might face a similar predicament):

 

first of all, keep in mind i originally cooked this engine to the point that it temporarily seized and wouldn't turn over at all and had smoke coming out both sides. and also i don't have another vehicle besides the GF's (and she needs it for work everday), so my goals are to just get this back on the road in a reliable fashion as soon as possible.

 

 

option 1. just fix whatever the problem is:

 

could be just a head gasket, could be warped heads, could be cracked heads. also should check compression and leak down on the "good" cylinders to see if rings going bad. everyone's guess that i talked too is 50/50 whether is warped or just head gasket.

 

even if just head gasket, i would probably get new heads because after talking to some shops and reading up on my engine - these bad boys have pressed in valve seats that can drop, especially after they've been overheated (because the sintered metal seats expand/contract differently at those temps than the surrounding aluminum heads). also i don't want to mess around with taking it all apart, then taking to machine shop, hoping everything within tolerances that is fixable, etc. add to that that i don't know squat about valve-train, so if i attempted this "just fix the problem" option, i would really most likely buy assembled heads and swap them in.

 

then it's arguable whether it's doable in the vehicle or easier to just take out the engine. also everyone i talked with said to do timing chains, tensioners, guides and oil pump while doing this. now that's half-way to a rebuilt engine except i'm keeping my bearings, rings, mains seals and such that could still go bad.

 

with assembled HO heads being $1k+, and me having 130k on a toasted engine - it would be alot of money to dump into something that could still have more problems soon. oh and no-one i could find had HO heads assembled, i'd have to send them my core, but only of course if they were usable cores.

 

 

option 2. salvage engine:

 

ok, with leaning towards wanting to replace everything to give myself peace of mind on reliability, next i considered junk yard engines. about $2,500 but all i could find had 80k to 100k+ miles on them. again, for that much time and effort and money, i could be just swapping in another problem.

 

 

option 3. new (used) jeep:

 

i could get a new-to-me used Grand Cherokee with no body damage ;) then swap all my junk to it... i'd have to buy the lift and have it installed first because that was all weld on and all the OEM suspension is cut off... that's $3,500 plus the cost of the jeep, plus all my time to move everything to the new one.

 

quick look says that in the current crazy used market, another 02-04 limited or overland 4x4 v8 would be $8k to $11k... and they all have 80K to 100k+ miles on them for that price!

 

so this seems like costly and time-sucking project that gets me nothing more reliable really, just maybe a different color and prettier body.

 

 

option 4. rebuilt engine:

 

first check on ebay says my 4.7 HO costs $4,500 for a fully re-manufactured long block! so originally this option was out - back to option #1!

 

then i call around some places and found better prices - Promar wanted $3,300, Jasper wanted $3,800 - they both had the parts ready to build one or had one ready and i could send my core after i got the new one, and those prices include shipping both ways. i also talked to rebuiltcrateengines.com in texas, they didn't have one, but would rebuild mine for $2,800, plus $500 shipping total both ways, would take 2 weeks (assuming my core is usable). i called some others found on the net including gearheadengines.com, but no-one had HO parts and so could only rebuild mine and had longer turn-arounds.

 

so for the $3,300 i was strongly considering a whole reman engine, feel like this would be good peace of mind for another 100k+ miles...

 

i called local places including phoenixengine.com and enginehouse.com (bad reviews from some people on engine house) - they wanted weeks to do the engine, and needed a good core.

 

i called Greenway Auto Repair here in North Phoenix as they are an authorized Jasper dealer, they wanted $6700 for parts and labor to do a full reman swap. that was including the $3,800 Jasper engine with extended warranty for $170 and they were figuring $270 of misc parts, the rest was labor.

 

i called discountenginesaz.com in mesa and they didn't have a set rebuild price, wanted to take it apart and then quote me.

 

i called Hopper's in tempe and they were nice, but didn't call back yet.

 

wanting to get this thing back on the road, it was down to Jasper or Promar - i couldn't see any benefit to Jasper except that they offered a much better "premium" warranty, but that put the price up to almost $4k. Promar came out to $3,450 due to $75 each way surcharge to have a truck with liftgate come (since i don't have a forklift or loading dock). Jasper wanted $1080 core charge up front, refundable upon receipt of a good core. i'm not sure my heads will qualify, i know my block is good though. Promar doesn't charge an up-front core charge, but bills you $500 if you don't return a core within 30 days. They also accept any condition core, they'll just use whatever they can off it.

 

 

the conclusion:

 

with these last facts, i decided to just order the Promar. They should have it built in 3 to 4 days, and delivered to my driveway in another 4 business days. So i'm out $3,450 but should have a whole reman'd engine middle of next week. it really boiled down to not wanting to do a bunch of work to 1/2 the engine after toasting the thing and having 130k on it just hope the other 1/2 stays reliable. if it wasn't my only vehicle and the vehicle that takes me hundreds of miles into nowhere often, i would be much more willing to take time to find and fix just exactly whatever the current issue was.

 

other than standard rebuilding stuff like timing and oil pump and such, i did verify that they press in new valve guides on the heads for this engine too.

 

now i need to figure out exactly which gaskets i need (timing, intake manifold?, exhaust header, ?). i already have new plugs, 02 sensors, water pump, thermostat, knock sensors, PS pump, coolant, PS fluid, and heater hoses all sitting here - and the radiator and main hoses were replaced just a few months ago (i was planning to do a "longevity tuneup" and address a couple DTC codes already, hence the pile-o-parts).

 

i'm going to also put in new y-pipe to get new mini-cats. originally i was going to go with the Mopar mandrel bent pipe for about $900, but with needing to now spend all this other money, i'm going to just go with the Walker aftermarket y-pipe for more like $350.

 

tonight i'll start pulling stuff out of the engine bay! my goal is to have it ready to put in the new engine when it gets here next week, and then have the new one in within a few days after that - so i could be back and running in 2 weeks and only have to leave the house for some gaskets, bolts and to borrow a cherry picker, and *should* have a reliable Jeep again that i'm not afraid to expedition with.

 

 

cr4.7.jpg

 

 

i'm looking at the whole thing as a chance to invest in the longevity of my jeep... yeah, that's what i'll keep saying to myself ;)

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tonight i'll start pulling stuff out of the engine bay! my goal is to have it ready to put in the new engine when it gets here next week, and then have the new one in within a few days after that - so i could be back and running in 2 weeks and only have to leave the house for some gaskets, bolts and to borrow a cherry picker, and *should* have a reliable Jeep again that i'm not afraid to expedition with.

 

wow:eek:

i'm not much of a wrench but i do live close by AND i can lift heavy objects too if you need any kind of assistance whatsoever, i'd be glad to help out in any way i can.

you've got my phone number.

good luck Kbro.

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Schnike! X2 what Scott said. Well, except for the live close-by and lifting heavy objects part. Diane :rolleyes:

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