AZBillyBoy

well then the temp of my house is about toxic to them cause I'm trying not to pony all my money up to APS

well it's your life.... personally I find the idea of sprouting large tumors in my lungs a bit much. Oh wait; I already got those from unwillingly inhaling/ingesting hydrocarbons and free falling radiation from chernobyl and fukishima. so where are people getting bedbugs? Not in the wilderness I take it... Are they in hotels/motels or what???? and what do you put in a steamer to kill them?

I'd be leery of those "professional strength insecticides" Wouldn't want to sleep or breathe anywhere they have been used. The cedar products kill a wide range of pests including scorpions, which are very hard to eradicate. The only thing about the cedar based products is they are advertised as animal safe. That's true for dogs and cats but not for rabbits. A similar thing for Simple Green. I know, it's not for bed bugs but that stuff is pretty nasty. I much prefer http://biogreenclean.com/

http://www.cedarcidestore.com/cedarproducts.html

So SoRrY MeAnT To SaY ThReAd

I'm just trying to figure out why this threat is even here.

Well there's a 17 year old kid across the street who has been into karate since he was like 12. I wouldn't want to mess with him either. Norris' only claim to fame is being able to "kick ass." Wow... Like should we be impressed? And when a movie "star" opens his mouth on politics, he opens himself up for complete criticism. Norris is a Neanderthal.. No, that's an insult to Neanderthals.... As for Gibson? Well, if a raving, misogynist anti semitic homophobic drunk is a role model, then I guess he's your guy. As for directing, I put his talent there right with his acting abilities. Yes. I am a movie critic. Anyone who watches a movie is a critic. There's not a lot to pick from today except remakes, CGI extravaganzas (which often mask a lack of plot or decent actors - think 2012 on that one) or an ever growing crop of 20-30 somethings who pale in cinematic talent to anything in history. Raise your standards. Don't settle for corporate slop !!

excellent!

it's know as dry or sarcastic humor. To match Chuckie's acting "talent." He's not alone there. Mel Gibson has about three poses (when he's not falling down drunk) along with his incredibly horrible Three Stooges impersonation. I'm sure we can all think of many more "actors" who somehow made a living with the thinnest of abilities.

Can I create a narrative with pictures into a pdf file and then upload that so people can read/view it?

??????????

i've see more wooden acting but there's something so unethical about digging up a corpse for that reason.

I'll steal his walker (not the Texass ranger walker, either!)

Oh wow this topic is custom made for me! First let me tell you of massive closures coming in the Prescott: FSR 89 from the Crown King Road to Battle Flat, FSR 9268R from FSR 89 to FSR 259B (That means the DeSoto Mine Road) will all be closed for years due to he Gladiator Fire, I don't even want to get started on the Gladiator and how it should have been knocked down in a day but the FS showed up and "managed" it and look what we got.... When I started my Adopt A Road work back in 2001, I went round and round with the Prescott over keeping FSR 89 open. They tried every trick in the book to close it. I won that battle but now it's lost due to this fire. Let's see. The video talked about fires and fuel reduction. The only way that is practiced in the Prescott is through fire. Fire is the FS best friend because it lets them close vast areas and herd everyone into their pay for use campgrounds. That comment about roads not being open unless the are signed is true. Former PNF Supervisor Mike King told me that back in 2003! Of couse the FS never actively signs any roads. I had to do my own signage on FSR 89. They also don't do any maintenance work on any roads. When using "Forest Speak," be sure you know the difference. A road is for vehicles - Jeeps, Toyotas - whatever as long as its licensed. TRAILS are subdivided into 50" or less - quads/ATVS but NOT side by sides - those fall into use on ROADS only - then there is another sub category under trails for 24" Dirtbikes....... Anyway.... Up until the 1970s, the FS used to maintain at least some of their roads. They also had crews that did what I used to do (BTW now that the Gladiator had screwed me royally, I am out of the road/trail maintenance business) - they traveled the back country and kept trails like the Bullroad and Tuscumbia signed and open. Those days are LONG gone! The only time you will see the FS using heavy equipment on a road or trail is to CLOSE IT. BTW, the Prescott has ONE dozer and ONE grader for their 1800 mile road network. Only 300 miles of that network receive any regular maintenance and guess where those 300 miles are? Close to the FS approved campgrounds around Prescott. Now this may p.o. some of the avid hard core wheelers, but FS roads NEED maintenance. Failure to do so will eventually result in a road that is so bad the FS will close it for soil preservation or safety reasons. Those nice rutted trails that hard core wheelers like are always the first ones in the FS radar for closure. About that MVUM - Motor Vehicle Use Map. The Coconino just closed half their roads because they are "redundant." Well shut my face. I guess we should do the same for any redundant roads going into say, Kanas City or Chicago or even Wickenburg. After all, how many roads do we NEED??? The Coconino isn't going to sign any of the roads. You're just supposed to know where you are and if the road is "open" or "closed!" My contact at the Prescott told me he had no idea where my Adopt A Road was, (or the related trails), or what type of terrain it crossed. They only found that out when it had to be used for access to fight the Gladiator. Strange, I told Mike King back in 2003 that FSR 89 could be a key road in fire fighting because it connected the Senator and the Crown King Road. I urged him to upgrade (maintain) it. Never happened. Don't get me wrong - I don't want all the FS roads to be Dodge Neon accessible, but anyone who has done the DeSoto or the back way from Lake Pleasant knows that there have been times when those roads were pretty bad. Disappearing roads? HELL YES! I have a 1980's PNF map and several subsequent reprints through the 1990s. EVERY single time they reprinted, they took more roads OFF the map. That was step one in road reduction. A lot of those roads that were removed from the map and closed were RS 2477 roads. The act of closing them was (is) illegal....... Then came the MVUM map. It is a gigantic (and I mean that literally!) waste of paper. It was based on a 1990 or so PNF map. The roads have no orientation or bearing. Many are wrongly classified for type of use. They have no relationship to non forest roads. Some of the MVUM roads don't even exist! The FS was supposed to evaluate all their roads before closing them - NOT take a map (which already had selectively pruned down the number of FS roads) and say "This is our MVUM!" When the fire fighters were trying to deal with the Gladiator fire, guess what their first complaint was? No roads Oh there were roads there; they had just been decommisioned or allowed to decay to the point of obscurity. This is the end of my little rant for now. The bottom line is that the FS is not your friend. They want to turn the whole forest into a roadless region and limit access to a few pay-for-use places. This isn't the work of the Sierra Club or any other "green" group (I am a "greenie"). It is a governmental bureaucracy that is totally unresponsive and out of control. http://rubicon4wheeler.blogspot.com/2012/02/rs-2477-what-is-it.html

hopefully gone and forgotten!

wow first the lane fire laid waste to a massive section of that area and now this? there won't be anything left soon. It will be a charred wasteland for several generations. I'm on pins and needles that it doesn't hop the northern ridges and head up Bear Creek towards the Mayer Goodwin Road. there would be no stopping it period..... the lane was finally stopped by the monsoons. we need another freaky storm like the one that blew through last week.

For a host of reasons I would never buy another Dell. I'd rather use an abacus.....

As I read your trip report it looks like you went all the way up to CK and then back around on the Senator to the road to Minnehaha. You can also cut straight over from the back road to CK and come out at the Button Mine which is where the dozer picture looks like... Although the last time I saw the dozer it was in a lot better shape than it looks now. There also used to be an old dump tuck and a massive portable diesel generator at the Button, which was quite a site by itself. I am sure the troglodytes have managed to vandalize it more since I visited it. If you go wayyyyy back down to the turn off for the back way to CK - where the rock is with "CK" painted on it (or at least it was about 8 years ago), you can keep on the "main" road instead of taking the back way. Traveling further, there is another back way up but instead of dropping you off at the Senator you end up on the Minnehaha Road itself. I did that Road one summer after a big monsoon and there were numerous scary (and very full) water crossings to make. Plus out in the middle of nowhere are those massive ranches with little sections of paved road !! I stopped doing the back way up quite a while ago. Toooo much traffic; it was like a freeway and then there was always the inevitable moron with a totally preventable break down who would end up blocking traffic. Like the Suburban (!) with TWO flat tires and no spares. Talk about "out to lunch!!" Oro Belle is sad because it is literally being trampled into history, like a lot of great old places in this state. I found out a long time ago that just because people can buy a 4x4 doesn't mean that they can drive any better off road than on.... then there's the whole manners thing....

Well that certainly makes sense. Make more of the forest roadless and no one will ever visit it. They will be forced (herded) into approved campgrounds. Sorry to keep talking about the Prescott, but I am sure it's the same in all forests. Out by Horsethief Lake is a massive roadless area. There are trails into the area but since they are never maintained, no one can follow them or effectively use them. And what about people with disabilities? They can four wheel a lot of places but maybe not be able to hike there as well. So they will eventually be shut out as too? Accessing public lands is a big beef with me because those lands belong to US. The FS personnel are supposed to maintain the land, not act as a dictatorial King. It's incumbent on them to make wide public notifications about proposed closures, which they don't. Often they just post a small notice in some third tier little newspaper and hope no one notices. I know when tried to close FSR 89 from the CK Road to the junction at 9268R they didn't do any notices. They just closed it. All of a sudden there was a big hulking locked gate across the road. So much for procedures... Oh yeah and I love it about how "we the people" are just supposed to know which roads are open and which are closed. If I were a psychic, I'd give up my day job Edit: P.S. Take your measuring tape with you so you can tape out that 300' easement!

All the National Forests are doing this. The Prescott based their MVUM plan on a 1989 Road map. I don't think there was a lot of planning done there. While I strongly disagree with those who forge new roads in the NF (or anywhere - which puts me at odds with a lot of fourwheelers), I also have a problem with the Forest Service slowly moving the forests towards roadless enclaves. Their ultimate goal seems to be to close a lot of minor roads, leaving those remaining open to eventual decay. Whereupon they will finally became non navigable regardless of how modified the vehicle. I think the real motive behind this may be a lack of funding. Up until the 1980's (don't get me started on a political rant about that era), the FS had crews that maintained trails AND roads. Those crews are all gone now. The Prescott has about 1800 miles of roads and they routinely maintain about 300 of those. Where are the 300? Most access FS approved campgrounds. The Prescott has one grader and one dozer for their whole domain. Get that? Maricopa County has more road equipment than that! I haven't seen a serious effort by FS personnel to even sign their roads and trails in years! As for enforcement, the last I heard, the Prescott had one LEO (law enforcement officer). ONE! Imagine sending one person on any kind of call to a remote area. If I were him, I sure as heck wouldn't go! Eventually I think FS users will be forced to camp in approved sites only, meaning you might end up sited next to Mr. Urbanite with his Winnebago, sixteen crying kids and a herd of barking dogs. Nice.....

Heh Heh You said it for me. But I wouldn't blame just the young folk. I have seen slobs across all ages but curiously it seems to be the guys who do most of the littering and trashing. You're right on though about the "next generation" being glued to electronic goodies. They have no imagination and no sense of history. We who visit the "outback" may very well be a dying breed!!!!!

There's a lot more to Tip Top than first meets the eye. If anyone pursues getting a MVUM from a particular forest, it will be the BIGGEST map you ever saw. At least the one from the Prescott is. I would advise against the pdf/computer route. Very large file(s) and very cumbersome to navigate

Another young whippersnapper!!! There's some history in that area which makes it more interesting. Unfortunately that history is slowly being obliterated by careless people. I don't know what's going on at Gilette; and then there's Tip Top which is one of my favorites.

Does that mean that the Table Mesa area is going to finally maybe be cleaned up? I can't stand to go there anymore; it is so trashed. I first went offroading there in 1979 and it was pristine. I could be out there on a Saturday and never see a soul. Now it's quite different... On the Prescott National Forest MVUM they have trails designated for vehicles 50" or less in width. Interestingly that DOES NOT include "side by sides" (or as I call them, "sofas with wheels"). Side By Sides are classified they same as regular vehicles which means they have to stay on ROADS and not trails (Most people don't understand the difference between the two words and use them interchangeably).

About a year ago I was headed up to do my trail work in the Bradshaws. I-17 was closed at Anthem with the usual advice to "use an alternate route." Sure. Right.... This was before sunrise.... So I threaded my way through Anthem. No luck getting back on. Made it to New River and it was closed too! I knew there was a route that parallels I-17 on the West side but wasn't sure where to find it off New River Road. I wondered if there was a similar parallel option on the East side of I-17. I headed north along a road that did parallel I-17. It's one of those things that you kind of notice if you travel that way but you never really pay any attention to the details. Well, it was paved then it turned to dirt. Goes by New River School and crosses New River. It's considered a "street" and people live all along it. As I drove in the early AM darkness I started encountering numerous 18-wheelers parked along the road/street. The further I went North, the more 18 wheelers I passed. Which of course was odd since that's not their usual "neighborhood." I finally got to a point where the road/street turned East and climbed a pretty decent hill. Right there was another 18 wheeler, a Fed Ex double trailer unit. He was trying to uncouple and turn around. It turns out the hill the road/street climbed was too steep for his rig. Didn't matter, though, because about then another 4x4 pickup showed up behind me. He had a GPS and said the way to go was "North" down "The Old Stage Road." I looked at where the GPS indicated and it looked like a wash instead of a road. Nevertheless, I turned on all my KCs and checked it out. It was indeed a route to Table Mesa. Went through Mesquites so thick that there was barely enough room for my truck to fit; complete with the overhead canopy of branches. Oh yes, as I poked along this drive, I saw MORE snakes than I ever want to see again. All in one short section of road. Somewhere in the middle of all of that I encountered a "bird sanctuary" with a shade ramada but no seats! A couple of twisty turns, one of which will drop you right off some bluffs into New River, and I finally saw the tantalizing Table Mesa signs on I-17. The whole trail was probably never more than a few hundred yards from I-17 yet even now when I try to spot it from the freeway, it's almost impossible. Several others followed me, basking in the glow of my KCs!!! Later I dug out my GPS, which I have hardly used since I bought it, and looked at the route. It did show the "Old Stage Road" on the map BUT the GPS makes no differentiation between a "street," "road" or "primitive trail." ALL of the 18 wheelers no doubt thought they had found a way to get back to I-17 using their GPS units. The moral of the story is obvious. What I always wondered (besides why ADOT and DPS insist on closing major roads when there are no "alternate routes") is how the heck did they get those big 18 wheelers turned around? I know the last one I passed, the Fed Ex unit, was not having any fun and the driver was turning the air blue with words I've only recently learned....